Revival and normality
I read this comment recently about revival and the Salvation Army.
"We were born in revival but we cannot live in revival. It is not the normal state of the Church."
I agree that it is not the normal state of the church but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be should it?
Does God intend for us to swing from fervour to apostasy, from passion to lukewarmness? It may have been the pattern of history but is that because God wants it that way?
I can't believe that, when the Bible clearly says that God wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the gospel. If he has chosen the church to be his body on earth to deliver this message then why would he only pour out the fullness of his Spirit to some generations and not others, to some lands and not others, to some denominations and not others?
The only reason I can think of that the blessings of revival times are not evident all the time is because God's people have ceased to keep in step with him and have fallen into compromise and sin. If that is true then we need to confess our sin and repent.
But resisting God, allowing a coldness in our relationship with God to come in makes our hearts hard and resistant. We lay ourselves open to the deceitfulness of the evil one who convinces us that low level faith, low level commitment, and low level effectiveness is acceptable.
Yet God is so gracious. He moves by his Holy Spirit to convict and soften hearts, to open eyes and ears to stir us to life again. Sometimes he convicts us through his word, sometimes through prophetic voices, dreams and visions or whatever he chooses. There are times when our hearts are so hard that he has to withdraw his manifest presence so that we will desperately long for intimacy and power.
I believe God does everything, except take away our free will so that Christians can be an effective body of Christ on earth. 2 Peter 1:3 "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness."
It is up to us to respond in repentance and obedience
Revival is only necessary because we refuse total submission to God and fail to receive what he has provided.
God bless
Carol
I read this comment recently about revival and the Salvation Army.
"We were born in revival but we cannot live in revival. It is not the normal state of the Church."
I agree that it is not the normal state of the church but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be should it?
Does God intend for us to swing from fervour to apostasy, from passion to lukewarmness? It may have been the pattern of history but is that because God wants it that way?
I can't believe that, when the Bible clearly says that God wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the gospel. If he has chosen the church to be his body on earth to deliver this message then why would he only pour out the fullness of his Spirit to some generations and not others, to some lands and not others, to some denominations and not others?
The only reason I can think of that the blessings of revival times are not evident all the time is because God's people have ceased to keep in step with him and have fallen into compromise and sin. If that is true then we need to confess our sin and repent.
But resisting God, allowing a coldness in our relationship with God to come in makes our hearts hard and resistant. We lay ourselves open to the deceitfulness of the evil one who convinces us that low level faith, low level commitment, and low level effectiveness is acceptable.
Yet God is so gracious. He moves by his Holy Spirit to convict and soften hearts, to open eyes and ears to stir us to life again. Sometimes he convicts us through his word, sometimes through prophetic voices, dreams and visions or whatever he chooses. There are times when our hearts are so hard that he has to withdraw his manifest presence so that we will desperately long for intimacy and power.
I believe God does everything, except take away our free will so that Christians can be an effective body of Christ on earth. 2 Peter 1:3 "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness."
It is up to us to respond in repentance and obedience
Revival is only necessary because we refuse total submission to God and fail to receive what he has provided.
God bless
Carol
posted by Rehoboth at
5:44 AM
6 Comments:
The normal state of the Church is not revivial, and nor should it be. The simple fact is that something only needs reviving when it is either tired out, or dead.
So let's look outside of our narrow idea of what Church is and ask ourselves when did we last see people coming to a full salvation, ie not just accepting Jesus as Lord, but being radically transformed into his disciples who go about changing the community they live in, in our corps/church? When did we last see this happen once, and when did we last see it on a regular basis? These are the only criteria on which we should base our answer to the next question as this is central to our 'DNA'.
Then, when we have an answer to this question, let's truthfully ask ourselves: Is our Army tired? Is our Army dead?
By
Unknown, at 10:55 PM
I think in essence we agree. I think perhaps I worded things badly.
The statement I quoted concerned me because it seemed to come along with the idea that people coming to full salvation, people being transformed into disciples and changing their communities on a regular basis should not be expected. Rather we should settle for lukewarm, nominal religion.
I long for something better than that. If we can't live in revival we can surely want that the same passion, the same spirit, the same purity, the same radical lifestyle that times of revival call us to be sustained. Given the tendency, as Booth used to say of a fire to go out, stirring the fire and refuelling the fire is a constant need. I think it is that that I mean about living in revival.
Sadly, in our part of the world at least we do need not just to be stirred up but re-lit.
I hope this makes some kind of sense.
Thanks for your reply
God bless
Carol
By
Rehoboth, at 6:53 AM
gns
revival is also necessary when the church appaers to be energetic and active (but not in the way God wants), or has lost its way or has not finished the work it was set up to do - for example the church in Sardis:
"I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent."
Revival is certainly fruitful but it also provides tremendous opportunities for the enemy (you only have to go to Wesley or Booth for confimration) however its possible pitfalls should not deter us from seeking it.
I believe that The Salvation Army would benefit from revival because we are very much like the church at Sardis in that our reputation doesn't match out true spiritual status and our work is not finished.
I accept that we would find it difficult to exist in sustained revival but I can also see where Carol is coming from. Revival wakes us up and makes us what we ought to be, therefore the state that revival produces ought to be our normal state. Revival makes us fruitful and effective and opens our eyes to sin and this is how we should be constantly.
Love and prayers
A
By
Andrew Bale, at 7:24 AM
Andrew and Carol
I agree with everything you both said. We have to look at the entirity of the picture and without doubt the Army and the Church as a whole needs revivial in the west.
Andrew, it's strange you should mention Sardis, as I gave this very same thought to the former TC in my territory back in the summer! And my current territory has a reputation for vibrancy, yet there is a spiritual, and indeed moral, vacuum in many, many places in the larger part!
By
Graeme Smith, at 12:35 PM
Right now, we need revival and then the church should carry that on by being continually renewed.
Continued renewal seems to me to be both the need of the church now and the way to continue in the wake of revival.
Carole...praying for you with your move...seems to me that Pill wouldn't be a daft appointment for you...we'll see what Thursday brings!
By
Captain Andrew Clark, at 1:12 PM
hi Carol - sorry I am dropping into this conversation well after it started - only an occasional blog-surfer at the mo.
Just thought I'd mention Yonggi Cho's book 'Prayer: Key to Revival' where he states that his church intends to stay in revival until Jesus comes again. What he means is not a state of 'being revived' but revival is a word conveying a degree of spiritual intensity that he believes ought to be normal.
Norman Grubb's little book 'Continuous Revival' is also helpful for this question.
God bless - found the reports of your visit to Ethiopia moving and inspiring!
Matt
By
Matt Clifton, at 11:04 PM
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