Old Wells

Friday, March 31, 2006

Crossing the line


Be prepared this might turn into a bit of a rant. I hope it won't be too long and that you will read it to the end.

I don't know about you but I grew up on stories of people who heard the gospel in an army open air meeting, knelt at the drum drunk and got up sober. I grew up in the Billy Graham era of mass rallies where people came forward or raised a hand to make a decision to commit to Christ.

There is nothing wrong with that but I kind of had it in my head that people who were not believers would have enough to go on to make a decision for Christ if the gospel was presented clearly enough just once or twice. Everyone was in my eyes just one step away from the kingdom.

These days of course I have learned all about the Engel scale, which recognises that there is often a process that happens to most people before they commit their lives to Christ and receive salvation. In the west at least we have become a more secular society and people have many more hurdles to jump to get to the place where they are even asking how they can be put right with God. Mark Mittelberg in his book Building a Contagious Church talks about secular men and women who "don't hear one good sermon, read one solid Christian book, have one spiritual conversation or go to one knock out seeker event and then decide on the spot to repent of their sins or turn their lives to God." I was helped also by reading The Successful Soul Winner by Finney and realised I had made the mistake that he points out in it.
"Revivals are often injured by treating awakened sinners as though convicted and saying , repent, submit when they are not yet convinced of their guilt and don't know what real submission means."

I believe that this teaching about the process leading to salvation has been and continues to be a very important thing in recognising what kind of approach is the best one in reaching a lot of the people we are trying to win for the Kingdom. Of course God works sovereignly but it is wise to learn from our dealings with people. I also think it was a breakthrough when we started to think about letting people positively experience Chrstian community before they sorted out their belief system and modified their behaviour. Expecting people to change before they are allowed our door is a barrier that still has to come down in many places.

But, there always has to be a but doesn't there? I have a worry about all this. I am beginning to hear in evangelical circles that we need to get away from the put your hand up or tick a box kind of decision making element in our evangelism.
I agree that sometimes that has been done very badly and with maniuplation.
But when I also hear things like, "Who are we to say when person becomes a Christian? Is is not too simplistic to say that there is an invisible line that people cross over and one day they are not a Christian and the next moment they are? I heard a well known evangelical say not long ago that Jesus only spoke about being born again once but called people to follow him many times and that we are too obsessed with the being born again thing. I have heard it said that we have made becoming a Christian too much of a religous ABC formula whilst God is not interested in our religion only our relationship with him.

There are elements of truth in all of that stuff but I have really loud alarm bells ringing in my head. I recognise that there is a process involved before we become a Christian butI firmly believe that there are decisions to make, a submission to give and an experience to claim. I still believe in conversion despite the fact that I can't remember a time in my life when Jesus wasn't a reality to me and my going to the mercy seat on a decision Sunday was probably the outward confession of something already done in my heart.
Are we not either dead in our sins or alive to Christ? Are we not either lost or found, blind or seeing? Are we not God's enemies or his friends, aliens and strangers or adopted sons or daughters?

We have had the crisis/process debate about holiness for years with the process proponents mostly holding sway. All I can say is I didn't grow into any blessing. I was challenged, repented, submitted, committed and received freedom and power that I had never experienced before and still continue to know.

Now it seems that we are having a similar debate about salvation which alarming.

Did the squeezing out of the Brengle style claiming of the blessing of holiness to make way for the Coutts style growth in holiness leave us open to thinking that we can grow into salvation too?

I don't know but we need "all on the altar" believers and I can't help thinking that this is another ploy of the enemy to have a church full of floating voters.

8 Comments:

  • Well said Carol. I agree 100%. There is a definite line to be crossed, from darkness into light for every single person.

    And as nice as it might sound, we can welcome people to 'journey in our community' as long as we like but it will not make one bit of different at judgement.

    I'm an advocate of preaching righteousness and judgement and turning from sin regularly (in balance of course with the whole gospel..but the gospel isn't the gospel without it).

    Why? Because I've seen the results of a movement which has negated to tell people that there is a serious barrier between them and God. As you say...free voters who are after a religious buzz as opposed to full salvation and righteousness.

    much grace
    Andrew C

    By Blogger Captain Andrew Clark, at 8:20 AM  

  • Hallelujah Carol!

    I concur with Andrew C. Christianity might me a process but both Salvation and holiness happen in an instant. You cannot be justified in anything other than an instant. If you put everything on the altar you are not holy until you conclude the transaction - there is no such thing as 95% sanctification (ask the rich young ruler!?

    Love and prayers Andrew

    By Blogger Andrew Bale, at 10:22 AM  

  • My understanding of Army teaching is growing all the time thanks to you guys but I'm confused about one area.

    Where does all the discussion of holiness and salvation being instantanous square with our 9th Doctrine?

    When I say that I try to lead a holy life people say I'm misguided as this is Coutts' teaching. I should claim the truth of Brengle's teaching. However, if I take Brengle's teaching the way some seem to want me to it seems very close to a Calvinist theology.

    yours confused
    Graeme

    By Blogger Graeme Smith, at 11:10 PM  

  • Carole, please forgive me for hijacking your blog and replying to Graeme...

    Our ninth doctrine squares with the Army's holiness and salvation doctrine just fine. Salvation happens when you cross the line, but to keep on that side of the line we have to have continued obedient faith...ie to remain in salvation. Doesn't mean that salvation is a process, it means it has to be maintained. There is no conflict.

    Paul does talk about 'working out our salvation with fear and trembling' but in the context of firstly 'being saved' and then letting that salvation spread to every facet of life. There is also the implication that salvation has to be lived in public (thus the fear and trembling!!)

    Holiness is a work of the Spirit, combined with our discipline and determindation, our willingness to remain humble and repentant before God. You don't need to try to live a holy life, its a spirit transformation ultimately, bu like salvation must be maintained by faith and discipline, continued contact and fellowship with the Spirit.

    I totally don't get how you can say Brengle is 'Calvanist' theology...maybe you could explain that one.

    By Blogger Captain Andrew Clark, at 3:55 AM  

  • This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    By Blogger Graeme Smith, at 8:43 AM  

  • Thanks for the clarification Andrew, because most of it was what I thought!

    My comment about Brengle, however, was not that I felt he taught a Calvinistic theology, but rather there seem to be some people who make Brengle's teaching on holiness out to be something I don't believe it is. You say that it is a work of the Spirit which is true, but to say you don't have to 'try' to live a holy life is too simplistic.

    Everyday I have to make a concious decision to follow God's will for my life and keep in fellowship with the Spirit (ie continued obedient faith) . Surely, if I stopped living an obedient faith then I would have stopped trying! This would result in me backsliding and losing both my salvation and my holiness.

    I hope I've made my thoughts clear on this!

    Graeme

    By Blogger Graeme Smith, at 8:55 AM  

  • Andrew,
    Thanks for the comprehensive reply to Graeme.

    Graeme,
    My thoughts have been well expressed by Andrew but I would just add that for me it is the concept of surrender that helps me stay on the right course. God asks for a total surrender to him daily so that our works for him are directed by him.
    I'm not sure how far you can take this illustration but it helped me. My Dad used to break in shire horses. They were not wild horses but belonged to the farm. Nevertheless that did not mean the farmer was able to use them to labour for the harvest, either in ploughing or gathering it in. They had to be broken in. The first crucial and decisive stage of this was to yield to the trainers right to put a bridal on. There could be no progression to pulling a plough if there was no surrender to the bridal and bit. The horse no matter how hard it tried couldn't plough a field or pull a wagon bring in the sheaves of corn without surrender to the bit and bridal.
    Effort without surrender does not result in a harvest of righteousness.
    Once there is complete surrender over the bridal and bit there comes new challenges, for the horse to submit to the new commands or new experiences that the trainer demands and offers.
    At each stage there needs to be surrender.
    Effort will follow because what the trainer ask will be demanding and may involve having to learn how to work in a team.

    Anyway hope that helps not confuses even more.

    God bless

    Carol

    By Blogger Rehoboth, at 10:30 AM  

  • Carol

    That's it! That's the thing I hadn't been getting from elsewhere!

    Maybe its me but I have missed that word Surrender in a lot of stuff that's being written.

    Thanks very much! The story makes total sense by the way!

    Graeme

    By Blogger Graeme Smith, at 8:03 AM  

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